This will be considered unamerican

[substitute]

but I am so dancing on ronnie reagan’s grave right now

he was everything i didn’t want my country to be, and we’re still stuck with his ideas.

rot, reagan, rot.

Comments

Re: how quickly people forget

[substitute.livejournal.com]

1. I didn't mention unemployment. You did. Read.

2. Enough with the flamewar in my LJ. TAKE IT ELSEWHERE.

Re: how quickly people forget

[mystyphy.livejournal.com]

So what do you mean by thousands and thousands working Americans on the streets?

Re: how quickly people forget

[substitute.livejournal.com]

Read. What does the word "working" mean?

Re: how quickly people forget

[mystyphy.livejournal.com]

Don't flame, either clarify your statement for discussion or don't post.

I have always respected you and thought of you as well-read and educated. I was surprised by your rather harsh remarks that the most influential president of our lifetimes deserves to rot in his grave. I was hoping you would provide some substantiating facts or evidence to clarify your opinion. I understand your remarks about the less than desirable people and governments the administration dealt with. I agree that ideally, and I’m sure Reagan would to, that that's not the way to get things done. But in the environment that was the 1980s, I think you have to be ready to accept some unconventional means to a much desired end. The 1960s and 1970s were a terrible decades for the United States, financially and politically. The 1980s was a quick fix followed by undesirable, unforeseen consequences. But to point the finger at the president during those times, blame everything on him, and then imply that he should rot is his grave comes with no basis or thought in reality. It’s a very simplistic approach to something that was much larger than even the president. To fault someone for doing what they felt was the best for the country given the time and information available, just because socially its funny to blame the conservatives is below you. It takes decades of government debacles to create the situations we blame on administrations. Don’t scapegoat a dead man just because it makes a funny LJ thread. Admire the guy that had the balls to stand up and do what he thought was best for the country because I don't see anybody here doing it.

Re: how quickly people forget

[substitute.livejournal.com]

You just said "don't flame" when you started by calling me and my friends "ignorant hypo-critics". That's just ludicrous.

I said "read" because you responded to my statement about the working poor with an argument about unemployment. Twice. Working poor are by definition employed, and therefore not included in the unemployment figures. You are a very intelligent person and I assumed that you were ignoring my statement and responding with something else in order to be annoying. If you merely didn't know the difference between "unemployed" and "working", then I apologize.

In the environment that was the 1980s I still think that supporting murder and terror in direct contravention of the Constitution of the United States of America was a crime and not a necessity.

Who said that I was trying to be funny, or to "blame the conservatives" because it's a social thing. I don't think Reagan was funny at all. I think he trashed my country's values and screwed me and my friends very hard.

I don't blame "everything" on him. Who said that, either? Stop inventing things. I blame him for his policies, his actions, and his speech. That's not scapegoating, it's judging based on a person's public personal.

This isn't the debate team. There's no "winning" here. This is my journal. You have every right to disagree, but you can't just be insulting and dismissive.

I am doing what is best for my country. I am supporting candidates I believe in and voting for them, and paying my taxes. And I'm opening my damn mouth as loud as I want because in my America, we're supposed to.

Don't insult me. Don't insult my friends. And do your homework.

I assume you'll need the last word so you can feel that you've "won". Please consider yourself to have already had that, and enjoy the glow. You haven't changed anyone's opinion.

Re: how quickly people forget

[mystyphy.livejournal.com]

The thread started with you dancing on a dead guy's grave. It was flame bait to begin with. As for "winning"? It's blog, I'm not trying to change opinions, just trying to get people to think a little bit before they jump on the bandwagon of the week.

As for the working poor, ya the 80s sucked for the working poor. What was a good decade for the working poor? Since WWII, the working poor have continued to get screwed. Why? It's economics, not politics. Same thing happened in the late 50s-60s. Wives started to work to support their families. Eisenhower introduced some Trickle Down type cuts to spur the economy. It worked because businesses bought into the idea, then 10 years later they got screwed because they overextended due to Trickle Down and the government changed to a different theory, one that was adverse to business. So comes the 1980s, Reagan tries TDE because it worked before. What happens? All the guys that were their 30s in the 1960s and saw the government change from TDE and screw them over are now in their 50s and high level managers. They realize that they shouldn't buy into it again and pocket the profits. Lower levels of employment get screwed. Reagan's fault? Doubtful. He tried a proven method for spurring the economy and decisions by businessmen hurt the lower classes. Ironically though, the economy still grew, which technically is good for all Americans. So, yes, I can understand the anger over the 80s, especially being a 20 something at the time, probably the worst hit age group. But not for Reagan, all I see is anger looking for a face to blame.

As for values, well, my opinion on our country just must be different than yours. I believe most of the morally questionable behavior that took place during Reagan's years happened during all the administrations. The difference? Ease of information. Since Watergate, everyone in the political system loves the sensationalism and the way the American people buy it. Just look at the media. It's a joke, and in that joke we lose the real story. What Reagan knew, did, or was oblivious to is lost. There simply is no information there to make a character judgment of any kind. Kennedy was elected by dead West Virginians that voted 3 times. FDR/Truman purposefully drove us into WWII by causing Pearl Harbor and then dropped not one, but two atomic bombs on a country (not that both decisions weren't neccessary). Frankly, I haven't seen much in the 20th century from the White House that has shown values or morals. Are we meant to piss on every President's grave?

So ya, I still believe you are on the bandwagon and am thoroughly interested as to the proof you are not.