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substituteSince a lot of my Internet-linked friends and acquaintances are either liberals, libertarians, or leftists I have heard a lot lately about leaving the U.S. because of disgust with or fear of the current government and their policies.
Let's talk sense about this.
In sum, don't leave unless you have another good reason to do so and a plan for achieving it. The wealth and privilege and freedoms you have as your birthright carry with them the obligation to serve your country in its time of need. Be a citizen first for a change. If you leave here, your new home will demand no less of you.
Let's talk sense about this.
- You can't just "move to Canada" or Sweden or France or the U.K. or anywhere, really. Unless you're independently wealthy and/or retired it just doesn't work that way. You have to go through an immigration process and it's long and painful. It can easily take years for even an experienced professional with a job offer to get through the thicket of bureaucracy that any well-run country erects for immigrants.
- You can't run from Imperial America. Canada is an especially laughable choice here; when we sneeze, they get a cold. The long arm of U.S. power extends to every place in the world, certainly to every place you could stand living. Go up there and watch things get worse here if you want. At some point an apologetic Mountie will arrive to explain that you're being deported back because of a joint security agreement.
- Foreign countries, surprisingly, are different. The peculiar luxuries, freedoms, and opportunities of our country will not be present there. Things cost a lot more, the weather is different, and the justice system may shock you. If you're not already an experienced traveler who enjoys surprises and strangeness, it's entirely possible you'll hate everywhere but home.
- Cowardice is not rewarded, either in respect or in results. Stay and fight for what you believe. Whether you are a libertarian who despises Ashcroft's new police state, a liberal who rejects warmongering and theocracy, or a core leftist despairing at corporate America, there is work to be done here. Defeatism is a self-fulfilling apocalypse.
In sum, don't leave unless you have another good reason to do so and a plan for achieving it. The wealth and privilege and freedoms you have as your birthright carry with them the obligation to serve your country in its time of need. Be a citizen first for a change. If you leave here, your new home will demand no less of you.
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(no subject)
Date: 2004-11-03 01:51 pm (UTC)You can't seek asylum unless the country you are running to says "hey, we think you might need asylum, have some". Otherwise, you're just trying to become a permanent resident of a real country with its own government, paperwork, and interesting bureaucracies. Remember, it took over 2 years for fimmtiu to just get his permanent resident status, and he could not go to school or work during that whole time. Go check out the Canadian Immigration web page, and try the self-test. If you can get more than 70 points, then think about it. Otherwise, think again. It's a long expensive process, and unless you have a very compelling reason to do it, it's just not really practical. We all helped support each other, because we're a family. I don't know how one would do it without financial aid.
I am never averse to people moving here, I wish you all lived near me. I just don't want you to come here expecting one thing and ending up being deported or broke and destitute instead.
(no subject)
Date: 2004-11-03 01:53 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2004-11-03 02:01 pm (UTC)haha, are you serious here?
yeah you might be shocked to find out that not only can you cuss on tv, there is no censorship, no death penalty, free healthcare, free education and four seasons.
not but seriously, of course running away from the problem isn't the answer. get involved, evolve the democrats, prepare for the next election and learn from mistakes.
Don't personalize this!
Date: 2004-11-03 02:05 pm (UTC)But it is true that Americans are often shocked when they discover our justice system isn't worldwide and that they are presumed guilty rather than innocent in France, for example, or don't have to be let out of jail within 48 hours if not charged.
I'm not sure what Americans would hate about Sweden most likely because I haven't been there. I'm making a general point.
(no subject)
Date: 2004-11-03 02:08 pm (UTC)Not to mention the very real possibility that, soon enough, Bush's America may decide that it needs you after all... as cannon fodder.
sure
Date: 2004-11-03 02:15 pm (UTC)I can also give my money and creative activity to the opposition.
(no subject)
Date: 2004-11-03 02:23 pm (UTC)i agree with you completely buddy. look at me, i am leaving the great land of sweden that even bin laden praises, for that doomed land you call home.
Re: sure
Date: 2004-11-03 02:28 pm (UTC)Re: sure
Date: 2004-11-03 02:32 pm (UTC)Re: sure
Date: 2004-11-03 02:32 pm (UTC)And there is the issue of taxes...
Date: 2004-11-03 02:34 pm (UTC)Re: sure
Date: 2004-11-03 02:35 pm (UTC)There is honor in sticking with a losing team that might still win. It isn't 1933 yet and it probably will not be.
I survived Reagan; we'll survive this.
Re: And there is the issue of taxes...
Date: 2004-11-03 02:37 pm (UTC)Re: sure
Date: 2004-11-03 02:37 pm (UTC)That doesn't happen to any other nationality; I'm an Australian citizen in the UK, and won't have to pay Australian taxes on my UK income.
Re: sure
Date: 2004-11-03 02:38 pm (UTC)Indeed
Date: 2004-11-03 02:39 pm (UTC)It's not the first time in your history that reason and justice have been the minority view. It's disgusting and disheartening, yes. But if you disagree with the situation, it's your civic duty to oppose it.
The ballot box is only one means to achieve this. If it fails you, there are any number of other means to ensure that your voice is not lost. In fact, it's more important now than ever that you find those means.
Those of us who aren't citizens of the US have our work cut out for us too. The country that I'm currently living in just signed a reciprocal agreement not to allow their respective citizens to be indicted by the International Criminal Court. This was one of the conditions of its receiving aid money from the Bush regime. Convincing people of the folly of this action is exceedingly difficult, because the ones who stand to suffer most from its reversal are those in power.
As many have said before, something worth dying for is worth living for. Americans claim to be proud of the sacrifices their forebears made in order to achieve freedom and equality. Maybe now is the time to consider what your descendants will say about you.
Re: sure
Date: 2004-11-03 02:40 pm (UTC)Re: sure
Date: 2004-11-03 02:43 pm (UTC)http://www.irs.gov/publications/p54/ch04.html
"If you meet certain requirements, you may qualify for the foreign earned income and foreign housing exclusions and the foreign housing deduction.
If you are a U.S. citizen or a resident alien of the United States and you live abroad, you are taxed on your worldwide income. However, you may qualify to exclude from income up to $80,000 of your foreign earnings. In addition, you can exclude or deduct certain foreign housing amounts. See Foreign Earned Income Exclusion and Foreign Housing Exclusion and Deduction, later."
Re: sure
Date: 2004-11-03 02:43 pm (UTC)I still personally feel it's my duty to stay. This is the most powerful country in the world, and leaving the worst in charge of it and walking away seems both suicidal and immoral.
Re: sure
Date: 2004-11-03 02:44 pm (UTC)Re: Indeed
Date: 2004-11-03 02:49 pm (UTC)Re: And there is the issue of taxes...
Date: 2004-11-03 02:59 pm (UTC)http://www.viviun.com/AD-14213/
However, it does get death cold there sometimes:
http://www.viviun.com/ad_images/14213-6/
Re: Indeed
Date: 2004-11-03 03:02 pm (UTC)One of the items of US popular rhetoric I like least is the ease with which people will summon up the things worth dying for. There *are* things worth dying for, but they are very few.
Leave the things worth dying for to the Republicans, and concentrate on life. It's harder than the alternative, but heck, you're smarter than they are; you can do it. 8^)
Walking away
Date: 2004-11-03 03:16 pm (UTC)I imagine that a lot of Jews in 1930s Germany made similar arguments against abandoning their cosmopolitan, vibrant homeland to Hitler and his thugs, and paid grieviously for it. I'm not saying that America is at this stage, though if things get too bad to stay on, will you know sufficiently well in advance to get out while you still can?
Reagan not a born-again freak?
Date: 2004-11-03 03:19 pm (UTC)